Know-How Exchange : Our Forum

Michele, I know what you mean. I'm not referring to using published strategies like Porter.

Rather, I am talking about copying and pasting the response you just posted as my own in another question. Perhaps changing a word or two and addin a sentance of my own, but using your knowledge to make me look like an expert.

Although I understand the nature of Free speech, releasing rights of IP by posting in a public forum, etc... There is something inherently distasteful about emulating other experts to the point that your posts are almost identical to those of the leaders in this community.

For example, When someone posts a question requesting the need for references to branding websites, I have a list of specific sites that I post (I have used since the beginning of the year). Recently, I have begun to notice a particular new member offer the very same list with comments similar to mine, only switched around a bit. The first couple of times I saw this, I blew it off. But it keeps happening. Essentially, this person has "blocked" me from responding by using my recommendations as his own.

I believe there is more to this than "sharing infomation". This was confirmed when I send the individual an email to discuss the issue. Their response was: "Sorry, it's a free world and I can do whatever I want. You can't have all the fun, Jett."

It may seem petty to some of you, but how would you like it if this person started rewording your previous recommendations in new posts in the areas/categories in which you retain a high expert postion? Do you just sit back and say "Oh, how cute, they are trying to be like me?". Do you trash your own ideas and advice then go back to the drawing board because of free speech, etc. ?

Again, I understand "sharing", but deliberately emulating another member in order to appear as competent has a very bad smell to it.

So what do I do? Stop giving detailed advice and useful links I discovered and use in my own consultancy because some new guy might start using the info in effort to sound like me? If we all stop sharing specific information, there will be no more information to "share"...and a dead forum.

Just for the record:

1. I am not referring to others pasting links to other questions in the forum.

2. I use the forum to learn, share, network, and all that other gooey altuistic stuff. But the forum is ALSO a huge lead generator and brand builder for my business.

3. This person is a student who has pushed his way into the top ranks partially by copying our info and rewording it as his own.

So basically, a student has taken a collaboration of all our advice, rewords it, posts it as their own, and is acting as an "expert" thanks to the time and effort we have put into this forum over the past 10 months (not to mention the many years of experience as actual, working, marketing professionals). Is this OK? Am I being petty and over-sensitive?

kk+

I appreciate your perspective. I never really thought of it that way.

I strive to excel and succeed. Leadership seems to come with the territory everywhere I go, so I guess I never really strive for the "ego stroke" (although it's nice to hear..LOL).

You have introduced a perspective that never occurred to me. I'm going to think about that tonight.

Thank you very much.

Chris -

In other words, we have no control. It is what it is because somebody started doing it and we cannot oppose or change it?

Of course we have control.

And plagiarism is plagiarism if it involves using other people's original work without permission, and/or without giving the appropriate references and acknowledgements.

If a student started copying answers that had been given by marketers with years of experience and serving them up as their own, helpful though they may be to the question author, chances are if they get asked to explain or provide further details, they will be unable. So their plagiarism, if it is plagiarism, will blow up in their faces.

Contrast that with an answer from a professional marketer with a number of years real-world practical experience, if the question author asks them for more details - or for help implementing the answer - then they can comply, easily, and professionally.

I think the more astute - as opposed to one-liner - questioners will rapidly see through a boilerplated response. And those are generally the kind of people who will be looking to hire professional help anyway.

Having said that, plagiarism is abhorrent and I think it is clear from past issues that plagiarists do not prosper here.

Cheers

ChrisB

Virago -

There is a fine line to be drawn. In your example, of course not.

I have spent years and years combing the internet, networking, researching for quality sites, etc. Many of the sites I post are unknwn to many and, as Jim has stated, found them to be useful enough to bookmark.

Perhaps a link to an example post will spell it out. But it will also reveal the identity of the person in which I am referring to.

I certainly don't lay intellectual claim to another website. This is more a matter of principle, ethics, and character.

Jim has made note of many of the sites I routinely recommend, but I have yet to see him post "the list" as a part of his own advice. Rather, as Shelley stated, Jim posts his OWN expertise and refers the asker to me ( or other experts) for additional reference/advice.

P.S. Let's not take the leadership thing out of hand. It was simply an alternative perspective.

Is this more of your dry, Aussie humor? LOL!! (inside joke)

Baine, we are stuck with it I'm affraid.
I think we all know that you are a fine marketeer, and you should be very proud that they want to emulate you.

For the record:

1. Carl came forward. I never named him.

2. I don't feel like the King of the Jungle. My ranking was a reward to my contributions by the users of this site. My reaction would have been the same if I was #25 or #250.

3. I recognize that every piece of advice is not necessarily original, having been authored by some of the more famous marketers of the past and present, from whom I obtained most of my basic, general knowledge of marketing.

4. This is indeed a brand protection issue (at least partially). But I suppose there is a fine line drawn by the subjective. For example, I have seen at least 2 other marketers with bald/shaved heads, and use this image as a part of their brand. Has Seth Godin asked them to grow their hair out? Who knows?

5. Again, I do not lay claim to the links as IP. As I stated above, it is more of an issue of respect, ethics, principle...and when playing ball in such esoteric stadiums, unity in vision is a rarity.

6. The link Carl posted was the straw that broke the camel's back. I had offered to give him over 2 GB worth of Flash files for his school presentation. After seeing his post, I kindly asked him to refrain from posting links from my previous recommendations. The primary motivation was brand defense, but also has to do with the fact he is a 19 year old college freshman who recently switched his major to marketing, yet has acquired the title of an "expert". Well, he may not call himself one, but he has indeed gained that title. This can be misleading to the visitors.

Now, does he derserve recognition for his efforts? ABSOLUTELY. Is he a valuable member of this community? ABSOLUTELY! Do I want to "crush the little emerging butterfly"? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Back to his expert ranking, should it be revoked? NO WAY!!! Do I think Carl should try to understand and respect the position he has by striving to provide "expert-like" posts? YES.

In summary, "the little emerging butterfly" has flown into a swarm of "adults" and is flying at the head of the swarm. He has become a leader of this community. Although someone mentioned leadership is in the eye of the beholder, when you are listed as a Top 25 expert at one of the most popular marketing websites in the world, you possess a HUGE responsibility...whether you want it or not. People will begin to choose you over someone else just because you are ranked higher. Whenever you post a response, and the asker sees you in the Top 25, they take heed. Sometimes it is ridiculous. So rediculous that a Top 25 expert can simply post "Yeah, I agree. Thank You." in order to get points/recognition. People will begin to specifically ask YOU to respond to their post. It goes on and on. The main point is to recognize your position...and it appears that Carl has done so.

Whether you like it or not, once you are in the Top 25, people look at you different. Some folks try to denounce their rank with statements of altruism, etc...much like a Rock Star complaining to the world about winning a Grammy and how he is just here to make music and live life..blah,blah,blah....It doesn't matter what he thinks about his position. People still buy millions of his/her albums, merchandise, concert tickets etc. One can denounce a high ranking all they want but a large majority of the visitors to this site take the list very seriously.

If one reads the posts I have made in past 3 months or so, you may not be very impressed. The quality and frequency has declined along with the deliniation of posts. So, are my most recent posts the best examples to follow and/or grade my competence? NO. I recommend starting from the beginning, back in January, then read forward... refer to those to see how I earned my position.

I must admit when I first came here, it was for fun, to learn, to help others, expand my horizons, etc. Folks started accepting my answers. I was #1 for about 2 weeks and didn't even notice until someone brought it to my attention. At that point, I realized the opportunity for brand awareness. Following the pursuit, I decided to dedicate a certain number of hours per day to the KHE. After about 3 months at #1, people started contacting me for work, making reference to the KHE. In walks lead generation. Everything has continued to grow from there.

So, you see, I am not a egotistical "King of the Jungle". I am an opportunist. And like Jose mentioned, I am an entrepreneur. I take risks. I say what I feel...and take the heat as a result (I also hold the #1 record of having the most complaints against me...ten-hundred fold). But you know what, just like Jose referenced, taking such risks creates an incredible opportunity to learn and grow. It's an awesome feeling. Unfortunately, the experiences are not always pleasant, but rewarding nonetheless.

Carl, I think you were very brave in your response and I appreciate your candid demeanor. I am willing to just drop it and move on. I've said everything I can about my position on the issue. Perhaps as a result of this thread, the problem will work itself out. We'll see.

I'll leave this open for additional comments.

I am just a week old on this site and i think its an amazing site. Good ideas are not the monopoly of any individual and i think many times egos and feelings tend to obscure the common good. I commend Jett for speaking out about his concerns about seeming plagiarism but equally commendable is Carl's courage and "not guilty" feeling which made him identify himself. This is a clear example of the riddle of the woman who crossed the river for a quickie and got clobbered by a crazy man. Who's right, who's wrong, always depends on perspectives. If u are a real no. 1, u will never be bothered by pretenders, and if u are a pretender u will never be a real no. 1 no matter what the ranking says. At the end of the day, all is vanity! Remi.